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Democrats Clash at Debate; Interview With Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz; Trump Gaffe at Liberty University; British Lawmakers Deciding Whether to Ban Trump from U.K. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired January 18, 2016 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:31:14] WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Here in the United States, the Democratic presidential candidates are marking the Martin Luther King Jr holiday in Columbia, South Carolina. But last night, in Charleston, it was fight night. Hillary Clinton went after Bernie Sanders on gun control, and Bernie Sanders blasted Hillary Clinton's efforts to link him to the gun lobby.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think Secretary Clinton knows that what she is saying is very disingenuous. I have a D-minus record with the NRA.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I have made it clear, based on Senator Sanders' record, that he has voted with the NRA numerous times. He voted against the Brady Bill five times and voted for what we call the Charleston loophole. He voted to let guns go on the Amtrak, and guns in national parks. And he voted against doing research to figure out how we can save lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders also sparred over health care. She accused him of planning to do away with the Affordable Care Act or Obamacare.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: There are things that we could do to improve it, but to tear it up and start over again, pushing our country back into that kind of a contentious debate, I think it is a wrong direction.

(CROSSTALK)

CLINTON: Nobody is tearing it up. We are doing to go forward and we are not going to be tearing up the Affordable Care Act. And I helped to write it. But we are going to be moving on top of it to a Medicare for all system.

(CROSSTALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And the senator also went after Clinton. He says that they have major differences of how the deal with Wall Street.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: First, I don't take money from the big banks, and I don't get personal speaking fees from Goldman Sachs.

CLINTON: And I can tell you that the hedge fund billionaires who are running ads against me right now, and Karl Rove, who started running an ad against me right now, funded by money from the financial services sector, sure think that I'm the one they don't want.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And last night's Democratic debate was the last chance for the candidates to face-off in a formal debate process before the Iowa caucuses two weeks from today.

And joining us now to talk about the state of the race is the chair of the Democratic National Committee, the chairwoman, Congresswoman Debbie Wassermann Schultz.

Thank you for joining us.

Are you surprised how close the race is between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton in Iowa and New Hampshire?

REP. DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ, (R-FL), DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRWOMAN: No, Wolf, I am not surprised that this is a competitive race. It's one I expected. We have three very strong candidates who are working hard to build a base of support in the primary state, and particularly Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton have been successful in building the large grass roots network that supports them. And that is going to be boding well for us when we have an eventual Democratic nominee, because we can take them to the built-out grass roots operation and unite them behind the eventual Democratic nominee.

BLITZER: And when you say three strong candidates, you are referring to the former Governor Martin O'Malley, and in our poll of polls in Iowa, he is 4 percent. Both Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton are 45 percent, and so you think that he has some sort of chance?

SCHULTZ: Well, you know, I think that Martin O'Malley has been working hard in Iowa, and he has a good message. The clear difference last night for me and for so many Americans watching that the debate is what a difference a Democrat makes. I mean, we had three candidates on that stage that all talked about the issues that are important to Americans, and about how to move us forward and build on President Obama's legacy of success, on the job creation that we have successfully have had, and the a access to health care with 19 million Americans who didn't have health care before and now do. And the finer-point arguments that they had between one another are really the difference of approach of achieving the same goals as opposed to the food fight, and really the insult hurling that we watched in North Charleston Thursday night at the Republican debate.

[13:35:35] BLITZER: Are you with Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders on the issue of improving health care for Americans? Hillary Clinton says she wants to improve the Affordable Care Act and make it work better, and Bernie Sanders basically says, remove the Affordable Care Act and allow Medicare, which is available for seniors now in the United States, to be available to all Americans. Congresswoman, do you believe that Hillary Clinton's pragmatic approach is best or Bernie Sanders' more idealistic approach for all is a better stance? Where to you stand?

SCHULTZ: Wolf, I'm very proud that we have candidates lunatic Republicans who all want to lock and stock, and repeal the Affordable Care Act, and take away access to health care for 19 million people, and make sure that the seniors have a doughnut hole, and prescription drug gap again and increase their prescription drug costs and take away the insurance from people who want to have their children stay on their parents' insurance until they are 26.

BLITZER: And I understand that. But where to you stand on the difference of Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton?

SCHULTZ: Well, the point is they don't see it as a split. Our candidates believe that health care is a right and not a privilege. And we want to build on making sure that more people and not fewer have more access to health care. So it is a difference of approaches and I was in Congress and not only proud to support and sponsor the legislation that I was adding to it to help people who have breast cancer, and I agree with both Senator Sanders and Hillary Clinton that we have to do everything we can to improve and build on the Affordable Care Act, and help everybody to get access to health care which is what Democrats want.

BLITZER: And let me try a third time. Do you want health care all over the country like Bernie Sanders?

SCHULTZ: I want to improve on the Affordable Health Care Act and ensure that everybody in America has health care.

BLITZER: And now, locally, for you, and we are now being told that you are facing potentially a liberal Democratic challenger for the Democratic nomination in your district, named Doug Canova, who says, "She takes a lot of corporate money, and votes for corporate interests contrary to the interest of her own constituent." That you are too close to Wall Street. That's the criticism of Bernie Sanders of Hillary Clinton. Now you are facing that criticism of somebody from the left who wants to challenge you for the congressional nomination. And what is your response?

SCHULTZ: Well, you have combined the names of my two primary opponents. Gyrocopter man is one of the opponents, and he landed a gyrocopter on the White House lawn, his name is Doug. And there's another one who is also planning on running. And I am very proud to have represented the constituents in South Florida in the nation's capitol for the last 11 years. I will continue to work very hard to earn my constituents' support. I am proud of my record. As I said, I co-sponsored and led the effort to pass the Affordable

Care Act. And I have fought hard to make sure that we could do everything that we can to have help for people trying to reach the middle-class, and have a voice to get good education, and access to health care, and strong roof over their head, and continue to be able to have an affordable education, and a stronger retirement safety net. I look forward to continuing to ask for their support both in the Democratic primary and the general election in November.

BLITZER: You are right, it is Timothy Canova, and he is a professor at the College of Law at Southeastern University. And is that a serious contender, Timothy Canova

SCHULTZ: And let me tell you, any candidate who does not take anybody serious who has a name on the ballot, it is a mistake. I have had a race every election for the 23 years that I have represented my constituents in Tallahassee and Washington. And I look forward to walking door to door and running the grassroots campaigns they have always won -- run and won, and look forward to continuing to do more. If there is somebody on the ballot, I take them seriously. And I take my constituents very seriously.

BLITZER: That is a smart move. Everybody remembers Eric Cantor, the Republican from Virginia, and he had a Republican primary challenge, and he lost.

(CROSSTALK)

[13:30:06] SCHULTZ: Well, it is very different in Florida, Wolf.

BLITZER: He's now in the private sector.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHULTZ: And just so you know, that we have closed primaries in Florida, and in Virginia they have open primaries. And there have been some comparisons made, but there's no comparison. Because only Democrats can vote in Florida.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHULTZ: And anyone can vote in Virginia. Very different.

BLITZER: Congresswoman Debbie Wassermann Schultz is chairman of the DNC and also the Congresswoman from south Florida.

Thank you for joining us.

SCHULTZ: Thank you, Wolf.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Thank you.

Coming up this morning, Donald Trump is speaking at the same place where Ted Cruz formally announced his run for the presidency. He had a gaffe there, and we will tell you what Trump said and much more when we come back.

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[13:45:00] BLITZER: The Republican presidential candidate, Senator Marco Rubio, is out on the campaign trail at a town hall in Iowa. I want to listen in on what he is saying.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The difference off what I am saying is between me and the other candidates is that they have not done anything about it. Meaning, they created a bailout where your money would be used to bail out people, and in 2014, I led the effort to get rid of the bailout fund and we saved $2 billion. And now all of the columnists are saying that Marco Rubio did a terrible thing, and he took out the bailout fund, and Obamacare is going to collapse. Yes, I hope so.

(LAUGHTER)

But whether it does or doesn't, when I am president, it is gone. And Obamacare is going to be gone. And it is going to be a system that puts you back in charge of your health care decisions so you can buy insurance from any company in the country, no matter what state they are in.

(APPLAUSE)

RUBIO: And we will deal with immigration, which is an issue which I know personally. I did not watch a "Front Line" special on it. I know it personally, because my father was an immigrant, and my mother was an immigrant, and my wife's entire family are immigrants. And my neighborhood is a community of immigrants, and most of them firs first-generation. I grew up in a neighborhood of immigrants and I still live there. So I know how complicated it can be, and every aspect of it. And I know people here illegally. What they did was wrong. But their stories would break your heart. And I know people who are here legally and the stories would outrage you, and vice versa. I can tell you this issue is not the same issue we had three or four or five years ago, because there is now a radical jihadist group, ISIS, who has a sophisticated understanding of the immigration policies of countries all over the world. And they seek to exploit them. That's how they get killers --

BLITZER: So that is a sense of Marco Rubio out there on the trail. And we will monitor it, but he is passionate on the idea of is and immigration.

And meanwhile, Ted Cruz and Donald Trump are locked in a close battle in Iowa just two weeks before the caucuses. The latest CNN poll of poll shows Cruz ahead of him, 27 percent to 25 percent for Trump. Nationally, Trump is leading Cruz, 34 percent to 24 percent.

For more on how this race is shaping up, let's bring in Doug Heye, a former RNC communications director, former deputy chief of staff or the-then majority leader, Eric Cantor.

Is it basically in Iowa, just a two man race. Is that how you see it? DOUG HEYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR & FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS

DIRECTOR & FORMER DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF FOR FORMER MAJORITY LEADER ERIC CANTOR: Well, I think it's a two and a half person race. You have Ted Cruz and Donald Trump gunning for the number-one spot. Ted Cruz is in first place right now, but he's been knocked off his message for about two weeks now from Donald Trump. Marco Rubio is somebody trying to get third. If he can get a strong third, then Marco Rubio can go in with a strong gust of wind behind his back which could propel him pretty far.

BLITZER: And in Iowa, two weeks is a long time, because that is literally when they make up their mind, right?

HEYE: That's one of the challenges for Cruz. He has been on message for the last few months, but it's been the past two weeks where he's off message. He needs to get back on message to close the case for Iowa.

BLITZER: And now, Donald Trump went to Liberty University, and some experts -- and I'm not an expert by any means -- saying he stumbled on the speech when he quoted the passage of 2 Corinthians from the Bible. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: 2 Corinthians, right, 2 Corinthians 3:37, and that is the whole ball game, right, where the spirit of the Lord is, right, where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. And here there are Liberty College, Liberty University, but it is so true.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And he said 2 Corinthians and instead of 2nd Corinthians, and some experts said it showed a lack of the knowledge, and what is your reaction?

HEYE: Well, it is consistent what we have seen of him before. When he talked about religion six or eight months ago, he said that he talked about the little cracker and wine, and to an evangelical voter, that is not how you talk about these things. And you think that he is being told to say or thinking in an impromptu fashion rather than coming from the heart, and if you are talking about the religion, it has to come from the heart.

BLITZER: Could that error hurt him among the evangelicals, because there are a number of them out there in Iowa?

HEYE: In the normal world, it should, but what we have seen in the past few months, there is not a normal world in the Republican primary process, and no one knows. Donald Trump has not been held accountable for anything that he has said in the past.

BLITZER: Thank you, Doug Heye.

HEYE: Thank you.

[13:49:44] BLITZER: Up next, Donald Trump being bashed by Britain. The parliament debating banning the frontrunner not allowing him to come back into the country. We will update you on the latest when we come back.

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BLITZER: Right now, British lawmakers are debating whether or not Donald Trump should be barred from the U.K. More than half a million people signed a petition to ban the Republican presidential front runner following his call to ban Muslims, at least temporarily, from coming to the United States.

Our London correspondent, Max Foster, is outside of parliament.

Max, is this a serious proposition? Has it ever been done before?

MAX FOSTER, CNN LONDON CORRESPONDENT: Well, I have never witnessed a debate entirely about banning one person. There's questions raised in parliament, but not an entire debate. It's getting huge amounts of coverage. It doesn't have any teeth. There won't be a vote on whether to ban Donald Trump. That decision lies with the home secretary. But it may put pressure on her to make a decision around this.

I have to say, an extraordinary moment in the last hour. Some support for Donald Trump in the discussion. The first support there's been really. A conservative M.P. said he praised Donald Trump's straight talking and we could do with a bit of messaging on political correctness along those lines in the U.K. But generally, he's been described from everything from a xenophobe to stupid. There's a split down the line, though, about whether or not he should be banned.

For example, the chairman of that particular debate suggesting if you did ban him, it would make him a martyr and make him look like a victim and that may play well for him in the presidential election in the U.S. Also concerns, it has to be said, if they were to ban him, it would be seen as a snub to the U.S.

But this is one view that epitomizes the view. It's from one Labour opposition M.P. He feels that Donald Trump should be banned.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[13:55:49] TULIP SIDDIQ, LABOUR M.P.: People often say that the public are apathetic about politics. This online petition signed by 600,000 people shows that when people feel a sense of justice, when people feel we need to stop a poisonous, corrosive man from entering our country they will act in good conscience. But this is not just any man. This is a man who is extremely high profile, involved in the American show business industry for years and years, a man who is interviewing for the most important job in the world. His words are not comical. His words are not funny. His words are poisonous. They risk inflaming tension between vulnerable communities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: We have to leave it there.

Max Foster, thank you very much. We'll stay on top of the story.

That's it for me. The news continues right after a quick break.

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