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Pope Meeting Russian Patriarch in Cuba; Major Powers Work Out Pause in Syria Fighting; John Kasich Stays on Positive Message; Report: North Korea a Growing Threat to U.S. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired February 12, 2016 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:30:00] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: That's one reason why the signal has been difficult there, but he's one of the closest reporters to the front lines.

Fred Pleitgen, in Damascus.

Coming up, Pope Francis is on the move. The pontiff heading to Cuba to meet the head of the Russian Orthodox Church. The last time this has happened --- well, it's never happened. We'll have a live report from Havana ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Pope Francis is on the road again. He lands in Cuba this hour where he'll meet the head of the Russian Orthodox Church at the airport. It is an historic meeting, nearly a thousand years in the making. The church looking to heal a rift between the two churches, the eastern and western factions of Christianity. Then the pope's next stop will be Mexico. The pontiff getting into the spirit of the trip, donning a sombrero there after his plane took off in Rome.

Want to bring Patrick Oppmann, CNN's Havana bureau chief.

Patrick, tell us what the pope intends to accomplish in this stop in Cuba.

[13:35:21] PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN HAVANA BUREAU CHIEF: We're used to Pope Francis making news, but not quite like this. This schism took place in 1054, so this is a meeting that's been hundreds of years in the making. Many other popes and patriarchs -- that's what the head of the Russian Orthodox Church is called -- have tried doing this and there wasn't enough common ground. There is enough common ground apparently now. And that common ground that we expect Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill, of Russia, to speak about is the treatment of Christians in the Middle East and Africa. Of course, we've seen the horrific videos issued by ISIS and others showing the mass executions of Christians throughout the Middle East and Africa. This is an issue that not only the pope and the patriarch feel is something worth coming together for, but also we should mention the Russian Orthodox Churches close ally, the Kremlin. Vladimir Putin, of course, leading an effort to save President Bashar al Assad in Syria. There's some interesting common ground here.

The pope will land shortly, we believe. He'll have about a two hour meeting with Patriarch Kirill and issue a joint declaration and both men will speak before he goes on to Mexico.

Somewhat ironic they're holding this meeting in Cuba, a country that not too long ago was an officially atheist country. The Cuban President Raoul Castro will be there as well for this history-making day. Even if they don't deal with the deep divisions in the church, they will be finding some common ground at long last -- Jim?

SCIUTTO: Patrick Oppmann joining us live from Havana, awaiting the pope's arrival.

I want to turn now to one of our big international stories. Major world powers agreeing to a deal that would pause the fighting between the Syrian government and rebels on the battle ground there. This cessation of hostilities in Syria, will it work on the ground?

Joining us now is John Kirby, spokesman for the State Department. He is in Munich traveling with Secretary of State John Kerry.

Mr. Kirby, thanks very much for joining us today.

JOHN KIRBY, SPOKESMAN, STATE DEPARTMENT: Good to be with you. Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, John, you look at this cease fire, and what jumps out to me and others are the parties who are not a party to this deal. It does not cease Russian air strikes there, which have been deadly. Secretary of State John Kerry has angry criticized the Russians for this campaign, which has killed many civilians. But ISIS, the al Nusra Front. ISIS, of course, the primary target of the U.S. and the coalition, al Nusra, tied to al Qaeda. How can you have a cease fire when so many parties are not ceasing fire?

KIRBY: Well, it's never been designed to stop -- to put the pressure that needs to be continually put on groups like Daesh and al Nusra. We've long said if the Russians want the focus on going after Daesh and Nusra in Syria, that's a conversation we were wanting to have and would want to see them do exactly that. What this is designed to do is get the forces that are primarily involved in the Syrian civil war to stop the killing and stop the violence so that we can try to get the political process on track. That's what it's always been designed to do. Believe it, the coalition is not going to stop the pressure that they continue to put every day on groups like Daesh.

SCIUTTO: Isn't the trouble here that it's become more than a civil war? It's in effect become an international proxy war, because you have the Russians, the Iranian backing Bashar al Assad, Iranian fighters, Hezbollah fighters on the ground on that side. Then you have the U.S., of course, arming, the CIA, the secret program that everybody knows about, arming some of the rebels on the other side who are turning their attention from ISIS to the regime forces. It just raises what seems to be a very reasonable question. You may make some progress stopping that smaller civil war, but you still have this international proxy war underway.

KIRBY: Well, it's not a small civil war. It's been raging on for more than four years. A couple of hundred thousand -- (CROSSTALK)

SCIUTTO: But the thing is, you still have very big players firing at each other in this fight.

KIRBY: Which is why this agreement is so important, Jim. It's to get a cessation of hostilities so we can get some humanitarian assistance to all the people in need in Syria. We're going to try to do that in the next few days. They're meeting in Geneva today, this task force, to get that going, to get the humanitarian assistance where it needs to go, and to help foster a climate where we can get the political process moving, where the opposition can sit down with the regime and we can start to get some real traction on a political process. It is exactly because it is so complicated and so vast, as you describe, that this agreement is so important.

[13:40:21] SCIUTTO: There are reports that some of the Iraqi militias that previously had fought on the side of the U.S. and the coalition against ISIS on the ground in Iraq have, in fact, switched sides. Those militias are now fighting to support the regime of Bashar al Assad. So you, in effect, have forces that were backed, trained, armed, supported by the U.S. on the other side of the conflict. Can you confirm that that's happening on the ground?

KIRBY: No. I've seen those reports, Jim. Can't confirm that. But I will say one of the reasons why this agreement is so important is we'll know when we can get to a cessation of hostilities, and this task force is going to work on this over the next week, and we hope within a week's time, we can actually put it in place. You'll know shortly thereafter who's going to be a party to that and who isn't, who's going to be on the side of terrorism and who isn't. If you're on the side of terrorism, and you're declared as such, then the pressure is going to be continued to be applied to you.

SCIUTTO: I want you to respond to a criticism that I know you're familiar with here in Washington. That is with the Russians on the ground air there, in effect, the U.S. has ceded control of the situation, really ceded a lot of influence in this conflict. The administration said early on Russian gets in thee, they'll be in a quagmire, but the fact is that Russian air force has helped Assad gain ground. They're now getting very close to Aleppo, which has been their target, their objective for some time. How do you answer that criticism that despite U.S. protestations that the Russians now have the upper hand in terms of influence in this?

KIRBY: Well, first of all, I don't think we -- we believe that the Assad regime or the Russians have the upper hand. All they're doing, by continuing the Russians in particular, by continuing to bolster and support the Assad regime is prolonging the conflict. And attracting -- as the secretary said last night, the more successful the Assad regime is in perpetrating their own brutality, the more successful they will be in propagating the conflict and attracting more foreign fighters to Syria and the threat of terrorism, not just --

(CROSSTALK)

SCIUTTO: That may be true.

(CROSSTALK)

KIRBY: So this isn't a successful strategy, by any sense, Jim.

SCIUTTO: But by U.S. objectives. But by Russian objectives, which is to rescue the Assad regime, they have gained ground. You had Brett McGurk, on the hill just yesterday, saying that because of those gains, you now have U.S. allies on the ground that were fighting ISIS being drawn into this other conflict to fight the regime. That's having a direct effect on the U.S. strategy there.

KIRBY: There's no question. And I'm not going to refute a bit that Assad is feeling more support now and he's been encouraged and emboldened by Russia's activities. No question about that at all. But that's not a winning strategy. That's not the answer to the long- term solutions here in Syria, which has got to be achieved but peaceful means. So while it is certainly true that the regime has benefitted from Russian support, Russian support is not going to be to the benefit of Syria, writ large. That's why we continue to pursue a political solution.

I would remind you that the Russians themselves, including last night, agreed that a political solution needs to be found. So what we want is for Russian and everybody else to meet the commitments they've signed up to, not once, not twice, but four times now, that we've got to get to a political solution. And supporting Assad and trying to prove to him that is military solution there is, again, not a winning strategy and it's not going to work in the long-term.

SCIUTTO: John Kirby, thanks for taking the hard questions.

KIRBY: My pleasure. Good to be with you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Still to come, name calling, accusations of lying and cheating, but one Republican candidate say he'll keep his message positive. That's coming up right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:48:06] SCIUTTO: Four GOP presidential candidates are scheduled to speak at the Faith and Family Forum in Greenville, South Carolina today.

Jeb Bush is speaking now. Let's listen in.

JEB BUSH, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: It was funny, I mean, you could ask -- I was asked -- this is not really as relevant to the bigger question. I was asked, what book are you reading. If they said, I'm reading Robert Borke's biography, I'm thinking, come on man --

(LAUGHTER)

-- you're just saying what you think I want to hear that. There is a way to ask questions where people are confronted where they're trying to -- they're either trying to appeal to you, they thought what you think you want to hear, and if they do that consistently, that's a bad sign for me in terms of interviews.

But more important than an interview is, what is their record. Because --

SCIUTTO: Jeb Bush speaking at the Faith and Family Forum in Greenville, South Carolina.

Also speaking there today, Marco Rubio, Ben Carson, Ted Cruz.

John Kasich not there today, but still espousing his positive message, and saying it resonated with voters in New Hampshire and helped propel him to his second-place finish there. Now he's betting that message will appeal to South Carolina voters as well.

Take a look at a snippet from a new Kasich ad in South Carolina.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KASICH, (R), OHIO GOVERNOR & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My father was a postman that told me, Johnny, you stand on your own two feet. You go out there and change the world. I believe the Lord put us upon the earth to use the gifts we've been given to bring about a heeling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Let's bring back our all star panel, S.E. Cupp, CNN political commentator, a Republican; and Jamal Simmons, a Democrat, and a principle of the Raben Group. He's also a campaign surrogate in the 2008 Obama/Biden campaign.

So, S.E., perhaps I could begin with you, talking about Republicans, that Kasich message, his strategy, all positive. You have Cruz and Trump all beating each up now, even more so. Does that message work for him?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm not sure this is the election cycle for "Chicken Soup for the Soul."

(LAUGHTER)

You know, when you've got so much oxygen being eaten up by Donald Trump alone. Then you add into that the fireworks of Jeb, Marco and Cruz. I'm not sure. I would love to think a high-minded happy warrior campaign really could cut through but I'm not sure with that.

[13:50:20] SCIUTTO: Maybe not on either side.

Jamal, let's talk about the not high-minded part of the Republican race. Trump, Marco Rubio, they're complaining now about robo-calls in South Carolina. South Carolina, a long history of dirty tricks, going back years. I had Ron Spicer from the RNC on earlier and he said campaigns always have this back and forth. But this is damaging, is it not, potentially for the candidates down the road?

JAMAL SIMMONS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Maybe. Like the famous line, "It's not rubbing, it's just racing." You know, this is --

(LAUGHTER)

They didn't hit you, they're just -- this is kind of just how it goes. So people in campaigns are going to get beaten up, going to get hit. They have to learn how to take the punches. We, as voters, want to see candidates get punched. We want to see how they react, see what their response is like. We want to see if they can stand up to an attack. Because when you want to get in the big chair, you are going to have to make a whole lot of decisions even under duress.

SCIUTTO: The thing is you have on both sides now, you look at Hillary Clinton -- just compare the Clinton/Kasich strategy. Hillary Clinton, might do a bit of old school, I'm more experienced one, I can get things done, that kind thing. But, you know, in that party, it's sort of out of touch with the zeitgeist, right. People want -- just on the Republican side -- is it necessary? I'm curious if both of you agree on that, you've got to abandon that, appeal to those worst impulses, the worst fears and really drag people out?

CUPP: That's one way to do that. Certainly, what Donald Trump is trying to do. The other way is the way Bernie Sanders is doing and that's appeal to activists. Bernie Sanders is a cause. Hillary Clinton is a corporation. And so that's why he's getting so many more young people and so many women I think. I think, you know, Sanders and Trump have the same problems in this election and they have similar opportunities. I think they're just taking very different tactics.

(CROSSTALK)

SCIUTTO: They also have unexpected success. Isn't that anger they're appealing to, Trump and Sanders kind of two sides of the same coin?

CUPP: Yes.

SIMMONS: I think, absolutely, two sides of the same coin. We were talking about economic angst earlier. I think a lot of people in America feel like they want to get the economy to get bigger, faster and include more people. What happens if not Sanders and not Trump get the nominations, and are they able to capture the energy and anger and offer something positive to those voters who may not feel as inspired by the more pragmatic candidates.

SCIUTTO: We're got a long way to go clearly on both sides of this race.

Jamal Simmons, S.E. Cupp, thank you.

Coming up next, a new record just out today about the growing threat of North Korea to the United States. We'll have details on that Pentagon report right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:57:13] SCIUTTO: A new Pentagon report out today warns about the growing threat poised by North Korea. The report describes North Korea's Special Forces as, quote, "highly trained and well equipped."

CNN Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, joins us now live.

Barbara, tell us what the biggest headlines are from this new assessment. From the basics, it sounds alarming.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, one of the more interesting things they say about those North Korean Special Forces, they are the best fed in the North Korean military. We know North Korea suffers from food shortages. Keeping those troops well fed with their job of protecting the country against attack, protecting the government, may be a real indicator of Kim Jong-Un's priorities right now.

But the report focuses a good deal, of course, on North Korea's long- range ballistic missile program. Underscoring yet one more time that the U.S. Intelligence view is that North Korea is trying to develop a long-range missile that can hit the United States and put a nuclear warhead on it. This is language we've been hearing in recent days from the CIA director, the Defense secretary, the director of National Intelligence, as they have testified on Capitol Hill about their concerns.

We just saw in the last several days the launch of a satellite on top of one of those long-range missile bodies, but the North Koreans want to put a nuclear warhead on that, and that may become one very serious national security problem, of course, for the next president of the United States -- Jim?

SCIUTTO: Barbara, I have to ask you a question. It's top of my own mind, as an American, but I imagine, many of our viewers. There's a lot of talk about missile defense, South Korea now requesting this FAB (ph) system to come out there and protect them. Based on what we know about U.S. anti-missile capabilities, is there confidence in the U.S. military that if North Korea does get that capability to put a nuke on the top of a missile that the U.S. has the ability to shoot it down?

STARR: Well, they hope they do. One of the problems of course with the North Koreans is the inaccuracy of their weapons. They are notoriously inaccurate. And the big concern is going to be, if they were ever able to do this, where would that missile exactly go.

There's an even bigger problem looming, the North Koreans working on a mobile launcher for one of those missiles. What does that mean? They put a long-range missile on a truck, drive it around the country. U.S. satellites may not be able to track it, may not be able until the last minute to see it coming -- Jim?

SCIUTTO: Goodness. Frightening prospect.

CNN Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr.

That's it for me. Wolf is back on Monday.

For our international viewers, "Amanpour" is next.

For viewers in North America, NEWSROOM with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.

[14:00:07] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with me. Happy Friday.

Here we go, the race for the next president.