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Terror Suspected in EgyptAir Crash; Trump To Speak Before NRA Convention; Divide on Gun Control Playing Our in Presidential Race; Debris Found Confirms EgyptAir Passengers' Families' Fears. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired May 20, 2016 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:30:00] PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: People like me from the intelligence business don't know much about that kind of thing unless you have a missile involved, which we didn't appear to have in this case. And TSA in looking at the physical security in Paris and looking at screening procedures. That's the Transportation Security Administration. The intelligence guys like me at the CIA and FBI are looking at people. That is flight manifests. Were any of those people on watch lists? The people involved in unloading baggage, were they identified and looking at places like Syria or Iraq? Al Qaeda members are they talking about an operation that might suggest they're involved in this? A lot of agencies involved in different phases of its investigation -- Wolf?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Miles, talk about the levels of security investigators will be looking at specifically at Charles de Gaulle Airport. This plane took off after 11:00 p.m. Any security gaps that might be exaggerated, shall we say, because it's such a late departure?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: That's a good question. A lot of this is people looking after each other. That's a good healthy dose of the redundancy in the system is the fact you're seldom alone. To the extent there's a skeleton crew and under cover of darkness, does that provide a greater opportunity for somebody who has nefarious intent? I think that is quite possible. You know, when you think about the number of people who have access to the other side of the airport that you and I spent most of our time on, the ramp, the caterers. It's a huge security issue to track them. I told the European airport is better about screening close to aircraft but the United States is simply a matter of background checks and hoping for the best. As we've seen in the best, that doesn't always work out.

BLITZER: Phil, let's talk about two of the other places the plane stopped at that same day before the flight from Paris. Cairo, it was Eritrea and then Tunisia. Especially in the aftermath of the suspicion the MetroJet plane that exploded over Sinai. Supposedly was the result of a bomb inside the plane that was a size of a soda can.

MUDD: Look, Wolf. If you're involved in an investigation like this and you can't close off any avenue of the investigation, that's why I oppose American officials including members of congress saying we have a working theory. We don't have a working theory. We have avenues of investigation including looking at those airports and the security at the airports you just mentioned. I would be thinking, did somebody put baggage on? I don't know the answer but I can't rule that out yet. That said, if we find out that's the case, that's a sophistication of operation that we have rarely seen among terror groups. We have only rarely seen that from ISIS including in the takedown of that Russian aircraft last year. I don't think we'll find that in this case. But at this stage a day in, you can't say what will happen. You don't know and, therefore, look at it, it's only a 1 percent possibility.

BLITZER: Miles, the assumption is it's some sort of act of terror. If it were a mechanical problem, would they already have indications of that based on radar and other indicators?

O'BRIEN: We don't know yet, Wolf. That's a matter perhaps caused by a piece of wreckage one way or another. But most likely, it's going to have to get the definitive answer from the black boxes. It's a shame we don't have objection about the floatable boxes like in the military. That's a relatively easy solution to identify the boxes deep beneath the sea. Just have to wait it out, unfortunately. It seems archaic to me.

BLITZER: Why is no terror group claiming responsibility, at least not yet?

MUDD: I think we've got a window. Let's say, between one and four days before that question becomes more and more pertinent. With an organization like ISIS as we know not centrally controlled as al Qaeda was, dispersed, they don't know operations or the operatives. These are independent players in things like the Paris and Belgium attacks who might receive training but go out and conduct an operation independently. I could see ISIS stepping back and saying, before we get out and say something, assuming this was an operation they conducted, let's be sure we know it's ours and what happened here. There's a secondary consideration. If somebody is going to come out and make claim, they've got to be a little concerned what the reaction is going to be. The French air force, the U.K. air force, the Americans coming down with loads of bombs on their heads. They've got to prepare for that eventuality. I am going to discount the fact I don't have a claim. I think that's a significant signal by that time.

BLITZER: When you say a significant signal of what, let's say there's no terror organization that claimed responsibility by the weekend or even early next week, what does that say to you?

[13:35:12] MUDD: The purpose of terror is to show an adversary what you can do to intimidate an adversary, the Egyptians and French and Americans to stop running Libya, Syria, and Iraq. If the adversary, Washington, Paris, London, doesn't know you conducted the attack, how can you claim you intimidated that adversary from participating in bombings in places like Syria? You've got to say who it was. I think if we don't get a claim to say on Monday, Tuesday of next week, then there's a high likelihood of a terrorist incident, I'll start asking, why aren't they claiming it?

BLITZER: That's a good question.

Phil Mudd, Miles O'Brien, thank you very much.

Coming up, we're standing by. Donald Trump is getting ready to address the National Rifle Association. You're looking at live pictures. Expected to lay out his position on gun control. Will he knock Hillary Clinton in the process? We'll have live coverage of that and a whole lot more right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:40:06] BLITZER: Donald Trump has said that the answer to gun violence is more weapons, not more gun control. He's getting ready to speak before a very friendly audience in the National Rifle Association's convention.

Our political reporter, Sara Murray, is on the scene.

What's Trump's main message going into this NRA event today?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Wolf, of course, we have seen him over the last couple of weeks make a lot of overtures to conservatives to make sure to rally the Republican base behind him. I think this will be a very friendly crowd for him. This is also an opportunity for him to set up a clear difference between him and Hillary Clinton, of course, the Democratic front-runner as we shift more towards this general election contest. While Hillary Clinton in the past have listed NRA among her enemies, Donald Trump has been very clear on the campaign trail he wants to stand up for Second Amendment rights and not looking for restrictions on gun control and that's the kind of message that will go over well with this crowd -- Wolf?

BLITZER: His views on gun control and everyone is, of course, examining them closely. They seem to have changed over the years. Back in 2000, he was in favor of a ban on assault weapons and longer waiting periods. Will those past positions hurt him with gun rights supporters right now because clearly, his position has, as they say, evolved since then?

MURRAY: That's a great question, Wolf, because this is one of the many issues that Donald Trump's position has evolved on as he's become the Republican presidential candidate but I think the mega phone over the course of the last year over his campaign events have completely sort of drowned out the fact he was not always as pro gun as he has been. he's much more pro gun now than in the past and he has made it clear this is an issue he's evolved on and surrounded himself with more conservative advisors who I think sort of shifted his narrative on the issue and get the sense with gun and his sons, who are sportsmen, feel much more comfortable now and closer to what he actually believes.

BLITZER: Stand by with live coverage coming up once he starts speaking there in Louisville at the NRA convention.

Sara Murray on the scene, as she always is.

Coming up next, Donald Trump also responding directly to Hillary Clinton's slamming his proposal for a Muslim ban, calling her response -- and I'm quoting him now -- "dumb," saying it will decrease terrorism in the United States. That's what he's saying.

We're also waiting to hear from Donald Trump at the NRA convention.

We'll take a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:41:52] BLITZER: The country's divide over gun control is playing out in the presidential race. Donald Trump is getting ready to address the National Rifle Association, right now, in Louisville. Hillary Clinton appearing with Mothers of Gun Violence Victims tomorrow.

Let's discuss all of this and more. Joining us, our CNN political commentator, Ryan Lizza, a Washington correspondent for "The New Yorker" magazine; and CNN senior political reporter, Nia-Malika Henderson.

On the issue of guns, Ryan, between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, there's a huge gap.

RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely. And I think this will be the election where that gap is the widest that it's been in memory, frankly, since the last presidential election, the Democratic Party has been much more assertive on gun control. Even Obama in 2012 didn't focus on it as much as Democrats do now, both the president in the White House and Hillary Clinton. This was one of the defining issues between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders in the primary and she was comfortable moving to the left on it. Her husband, not, an issue that Democrats were confident on and the two parties like two other issues, much more polarized on it and nothing in the middle anymore. No more wiggling around the middle. Both sides are dug in and have clear views.

BLITZER: This issue of guns, it's got a strong position and very different positions.

LIZZA: You said the Democrats didn't want to talk about it or would be fuzzy, but that's not the way it is anymore.

BLITZER: Yesterday, at this time, Chris Cuomo did an important interview with Hillary Clinton. We watched it closely. She said flatly Donald Trump is not qualified to be president of the United States. He responded earlier this morning on FOX. I want to play a clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION (voice-over): It was one of the dumber statements I've ever heard. She's so ill equipped to be the president. In fact, if anything, it's just the opposite. Because they're going to have to learn that we can't take this anymore. And they're going to have to turn in the people that are bombing the planes, and they know who the people are. And we're not going to find the people by just continuing to be so nice and so soft. And I have many Muslim friends, and they agree. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: He was responding to Hillary Clinton's assertion his temporary ban on Muslims coming to the United States in effect makes him a recruiter for terrorists.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: She clearly went into that interview yesterday. It was a great interview about wanting to make news, asserting he was disqualified basically saying he was unqualified in saying that he was a loose cannon. I understand that Bill Clinton just responds to this idea. Was asked if he thought that Donald Trump was unqualified. He said, listen, the voters will figure this out.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: The normal answer, which is the answer she gave a couple weeks ago to Jake Tapper, but this time, minced no words. Is he qualified to be president? No.

HENDERSON: That's right. She didn't mince words. Exactly. And it made a lot of news. If you look at "The Nightly News," her interview was paired out of Paris as well and the plane incident. I thought it was a smart strategy. If you listen to a lot of Republican voters, and particularly, who didn't vote for Donald Trump, one of their concerns had been sort of, whether or not they could concede Donald Trump in the White House and in that interview. She, for instance, tried to put Donald Trump in the situation room, not your situation room but the real situation room.

(CROSSTALK)

HENDERSON: Right. He wouldn't know what to do or have the right temperament on what's going on in the situation room.

[13:50:23] LIZZA: This is very interesting, because up until that interview, Hillary Clinton's, the word that they were using to describe Donald Trump was "risky," right? And some Democrats have been reporting in the papers today saying, wait a second, well, there's, risk means you're taking a chance. Maybe Hillary Clinton needs to go harder against Donald Trump and not just that he's risky but he's just purely not qualified to be in the White House. And maybe nuanced but I think that's a significant change that the Clinton campaign landed on. The thing about Trump still talking about the Muslim ban, I've been doing a lot of interviews with Republicans the last two weeks and no doubt the biggest story in Republicans is the sort of consolidating around Trump, some reluctantly, but he's bringing people, he's consolidating the party faster than people thought.

BLITZER: And he's hitting all those locations, Nia, he's got a hit in order to bring those Republicans on board.

HENDERSON: That's right. I mean, he's even reaching out to some conservative talk show hosts that haven't been too kind to him. They have seen Republicans essentially do what in some ways, we thought they would do which came on board to a certain extent.

(CROSSTALK)

HENDERSON: I think there will be some holdout, particularly, moderate Republicans or Republican women as well.

LIZZA: The ban on Muslims comes up again in interviews, that's the red line a lot of Republicans wish he would not talk about and, frankly, he would renounce, and don't want to run on that.

BLITZER: He now says it's a suggestion. He said it's a temporary ban, until they can figure out the problem with terrorism.

Stand by, guys.

We're waiting to hear from Donald Trump. He's going to be addressing the NRA convention in Louisville, Kentucky. Live pictures coming in. We'll have live coverage of that.

Also coming up, as the search for the wreckage of EgyptAir flight 804 continues, we're beginning to learn about the 66 lives lost. Their stories next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:56:23] BLITZER: The discovery of debris from flight 804 is promising to investigators in the hope of finding some answers to what exactly happened. But for the family members of missing passengers and crew, it's nothing more than a confirmation of their worst fear, that their loved ones are not coming home.

The pilots of the flight have been identified. And the uncle of the copilot, seen here, on the right, got quite emotional when talking to CNN earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YASSIR ABDEL GHAFFAR, UNCLE OF EGYPTAIR COPILOT: He's absolutely very kind person. You never see a guy his age with his humanity and the sense of humor. He was about to get married. He's really ready in the relationship. And he just introduced me to his --

UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: So sorry.

GHAFFAR: It's OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Our heart goes out to that family, all the families.

CNN's Miguel Marquez joins us now.

Miguel, you are learning more about those on flight 804, the EgyptAir flight. Others on the flight are also now being identified. What can you tell us? MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Look, the suddenness and the speed

at which these accidents happen can be absolutely disorienting for these families, some of them still holding out hope their relatives may be alive.

We are learning more about some of those individuals who were on the plane. Richard Osman. He was a father, 40 years old, father to two young infant children. He was a geologist from Wales who worked in Egypt. His brother spoke to us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALASTAIR OSMAN, BROTHER OF EGYPTAIR PASSENGER: He was a very kind person, loving person, very focused. He was a workaholic. And he never deviated from the straight path. Yeah, he was just, you know, a very admirable person. I think a lot of people admired him for his strength and values.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUEZ: Now, also on board that plane was Akmed Halal, a 40-year-old director of a proctor and gamble facility in France. Colleagues said this was a guy who was always smiling. He was headed to Egypt to visit a sick father. A canyon who was living in Cairo a mother of three kids -- the school where she worked -- they put up on their Facebook page that she was a devoted and loving mother, always there offering a helping hand, and a pure smile. Our hearts and prayers go out with her and her family.

Others that we're now learning about, Pascal Hess, he was a 51-year- old French citizen who was an independent photographer and took a lot of pictures of rocks and stones in the areas where he lived in France.

Certainly, we know the pilot and the entire crew. There were 10 crew members on there, 56 passengers, two of those passengers were infants -- Wolf?

BLITZER: What a sad, sad story, indeed. It's heart breaking just to hear this, Miguel. I know you are working this. Is there an effort now to do something, to console those families, by EgyptAir, let's say.

MARQUEZ: Well, they are -- information is the best thing that the families want right now. They want -- they are headed to both airports in Cairo and in Paris trying to get information. Some of the families overwhelmed because, one, there may be a language barrier. They don't understand what's happening there. So it's been a very, very difficult time -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Miguel, I'm sure it has been for everyone. Our hearts go out to those families.

Thank you for joining us. That's it for me. The news continues next right here on CNN.