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PRIMETIME JUSTICE WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Bodies of Two Missing Teen Girls Found; Text Gone Awry Reveals Murder-for-Hire Plot; Suspicious Death; Guilty Verdict; Murder Motive Revealed?. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired February 15, 2017 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[20:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`ve been up (INAUDIBLE) for hours.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is not a good finding (ph).

JEAN CASAREZ, HLN HOST (voice-over): A killer on the loose after two teenage girls go hiking in the woods and are found murdered.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is considered a double homicide investigation.

CASAREZ: Investigators are scouring the crime scene for clues and warning parents to stay on alert.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Heartsick.

CASAREZ: Will a Snapchat photo help police catch a killer?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is somebody out there. We`re going to track him down.

CASAREZ: A husband allegedly tries to hire a hitman to kill not just his wife but his 4-year-old daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "If you can make it look like a robbery gone wrong"...

CASAREZ: But instead of texting the hitman, he messages his ex-boss.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Life insurance is worth $1 million."

CASAREZ: A beautiful nurse calls 911, saying her husband killed himself with a shotgun in their bedroom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) got a text from here, said, Your son shot himself.

CASAREZ: While police take a closer look at the crime scene and charge the young mother with murder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just too awful!

CASAREZ: Did a Texas neurosurgeon deliberately maim patients? He`s accused of crippling many and causing two deaths.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t have any remorse for him.

CASAREZ: Will this doctor be spending the rest of his life behind bars?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those two individuals take my daughter (INAUDIBLE)

CASAREZ: And shocking new allegations in the case of two Virginia Tech students who allegedly killed a 13-year-old girl. The male defendant in

the case, who met the girl on line, claims he was worried he got her pregnant at a party.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And good evening. I`m Jean Casarez, in for Ashleigh Banfield tonight. Thank you so much for joining us. This is PRIMETIME JUSTICE.

We are following breaking news tonight out of Indiana. Someone has murdered two girls, one just 13 years old, the other 14. And in their

search for information, they are trying to locate anyone who was in the wooded area at the time, including a male subject seen on these

photographs. They were just released minutes ago by the Indiana State Police. They say they would like to ask this person what he might have

seen.

The girls were reported missing, and two bodies found yesterday in the hilly and remote outside of town after an intense search, today they were

identified.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bodies are of -- have been positive identified as Abigail Jane (ph) Williams, 13, of the Delphi (ph) area, and Liberty Rose

Lynn (ph) German, 14, of the Delphi area. The two girls were reported missing on Monday, February 13th. The bodies were discovered about 12:15

on the 14th in the woods just east of town here. This is considered a double homicide investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And police are also examining this Snapchat photo of Abigail Williams. It was taken by Liberty German, her girlfriend, just before the

both girls disappeared about 60 miles north west of Indianapolis. It is believed they were hiking in the area and this is the photo, the last known

trace of them alive before the mysterious killings.

And with me tonight, former prosecutor Christine Grillo and defense attorney Robert Schalk.

But first, I want to go to Lindsey Eaton. She is a reporter with Fox 59 in Indianapolis. Lindsey, we do want to show -- let`s show this picture again

because we just got this about 30 seconds before going on air, released by the Illinois (ph) State Police. They`re saying -- and this is -- this is

the Snapchat photo, actually, the last known picture of the girls.

This right here, law enforcement is calling a person walking on the trail. And it was on Monday, February 13th, when these girls went missing. This

was the day. There was no school that day. They were out and they were hiking, dropped off by a family member to hike, and that person was also

seen on the trail.

Lindsey, I do want to go to you. You`re a reporter. You`ve been covering this case -- Fox 59 out of Indianapolis. Just start from the beginning

because it was Monday. What was the area like where they were dropped off, the community?

LINDSEY EATON, FOX 59 (via telephone): Yes, they were dropped off Monday by a family member. They had a plan. They were supposed to meet that

family member a few hours later. They had a time, they had a location where they were supposed to meet, and those girls never showed up. And

that family member immediately alerted authorities.

And the search efforts were under way. And when we say search efforts, we mean hundreds of people were out in that wooded area looking for these

girls, scouring the area for any clues. Social media took off. Pictures of these girls were circulating, social media. Anyone who knew anything,

they were just begging them to come forward, to call police.

[20:05:05]And I think everyone went to sleep Monday night keeping their fingers crossed that there was maybe some kind of a miscommunication or the

girls were going to be hanging out somewhere else. And unfortunately, obviously, we know that wasn`t the case.

CASAREZ: And this is a very safe area. In fact, they have never had a double homicide, and they have -- haven`t had a homicide in the community

in years. And Lindsey, just confirm with me -- the autopsies were performed today. Do we have a cause of death at this hour?

EATON: No. We know the autopsy was performed this morning, and the only details we officially got from that autopsy was confirmation of the two

girls` names, which a lot of people, including the family members, had already made that connection. So that was really the only thing that came

from that autopsy findings, and also that officials have ruled this now a double homicide.

CASAREZ: Christine Grillo, there was a press conference today. And this is a small community. They`re not used to this. They have called in the

FBI to help with the recovery. They are still processing the crime scene as we speak tonight. They haven`t said if they recovered the cell phones.

How important is that?

CHRISTINE GRILLO, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I think the cell phones are going to be very important. As you see, the Snapchat photo that you put up there is

a very telling photo. It gives probably the last person perhaps that saw them alive. The cell phones are going to give a lot of information.

They`re not releasing certain information, and they`re probably taking this investigation very slowly and very carefully. They`re not releasing how

the girls died perhaps because they want to investigate further before saying something, before tipping someone off.

So the cell phones are going to be very, very important, the information and the communication that might have been picked up on those cell phones

right before their deaths.

CASAREZ: So Robert Schalk, the last known whereabouts come from this last Snapchat photo that one of the girls took of the other.

ROBERT SCHALK, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.

CASAREZ: It was at 2:07. They were dropped off at 1:00 o`clock by a family member. 2:07, they`re walking along the trail. And what I`ve been

told is this trail used to be where trains were. And so there`s a lot of railroad tracks that you`re walking on. But that last photo and the

timestamp on it -- what can that be used by law enforcement for?

SCHALK: Right. You got a digital footprint. We know from the eyewitness who dropped them off what time they were dropped -- you know, left there.

You have the Snapchat photo, indicating 2:07. And as Christine said, if the phones can be recovered, those are going to be critical pieces of

information. But even if the phones aren`t recovered, they`ll able to see if there`s cell site data that is being able to be recovered by their phone

records. Were they pinging off a certain tower at a certain time? Were they texting? Were they making phone calls?

I think also is important to think of, they`re not announcing the cause of death. We don`t know what happened. Has DNA been left behind, if there

was blood, is there going to be any footprints? They got to make sure that they get, you know, leaves in surrounding areas, and which is why the FBI

is there. They`re much more experienced than small town police department in recovering forensics because forensics is going to be the key that puts

this all together.

CASAREZ: You know, Lindsey, at the press conference today, law enforcement talked about that they did not believe there was a threat to the community.

But the fact is, Lindsey, there`s a killer on the loose. I mean, somebody murdered these two girls 48 hours ago, and so there is a killer on the

loose.

Did anybody question law enforcement when they made that statement that obviously has no merit?

EATON: Absolutely. I think -- and they kind of said, yes, parents be on alert. Yes, keep your eyes on your kids. And that message is really felt

(ph) even (ph). You can talk to anyone in this community. We were out here last night and now here again today. You talk to anyone in this

community, and they`re scared. Very simply put, they are scared. They want answers. They want to know who did this, and they want that person

off the streets.

CASAREZ: No question. I do want -- Christine, when you look at the crime scene -- and they are continuing to process and the amount of evidence,

here is the cold hard fact. One of those two young girls probably witnessed the murder...

GRILLO: The murder of the second.

CASAREZ: ... of her friend.

GRILLO: Yes. You know, you hope that -- you hope -- they`re going to be able to find out a lot of information and you hope that there`s going to be

discretion attached to all of this, that if that information is not going to lead them to a conviction of the murderer of these two girls, that that

is something that maybe they won`t share and it won`t be -- they won`t say that it`s clearly determined because that is a horrible thought. It really

is.

And you know, they are -- they should be afraid. You`re right, there is a killer on the loose. These are two young girls doing something that young

girls do, and somebody found them and killed them.

CASAREZ: And Robert Schalk, the reason they weren`t in school on Monday -- it was a snow day because they allot for these days in the Midwest. So you

don`t go to school. If there`s snow, you stay home. So they extend the school calendar. And that`s why they didn`t have school on that day.

[20:10:00]But when we -- when we look at this -- let`s look at the picture again that was just released of someone they say was walking along the

trail, the Delphi trail. This is the Monon High Bridge, possibly, was a known place. First of all, I am shocked that there was a camera.

ROBERT SCHALK, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I want to know where...

CASAREZ: That there`d be a picture!

SCHALK: I want to know where that picture came from. And the thing about it that we`re talking about, Jean, is this is broad daylight. This is 2:00

o`clock in the afternoon. And it`s a small town and a small community, and the benefits of living in the small town, in this small community, is

someone there has to know...

CASAREZ: Has to know who that is.

SCHALK: ... who that person is.

CASAREZ: Yes.

SCHALK: Or if the person is not from there, we`ll be able to see, Did anyone see him? Did you see someone suspicious? Were there any cars? Are

there cameras in the parking lot of the tail? You hope, if it`s a state or a government property, that they have some semblance of surveillance

that tracks who comes in and who goes out, and again, to piece the puzzle together.

CASAREZ: And Christine, the bodies of these two young girls were not found actually on the trail. They were found off the trail, actually on private

property, but close to a shoreline. So cars couldn`t get anywhere near where those bodies were found.

GRILLO: So it could be that, you know, you`re doing that so you`re hoping no one does find them, that there`s more decomposition to the bodies, less

evidence found. You know, you don`t know what these murderers are thinking at the time that they are committing these horrible acts.

CASAREZ: All right. Well, we hope that they are close to finding who murdered these two young girls.

Police do say that a man in Washington, Washington state, wanted his wife - - and listen to this -- their 4-year-old daughter dead. But investigators say he made one huge mistake. You see, he texted the wrong person!

Jurors say this Texas doctor, in another story, he`s guilty of maiming four patients and he`s killing at least two. Why they say he (sic) had no

problem convicting him of intentionally hurting people he was supposed to help.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CASAREZ: Investigators say a husband`s murder-for-hire plot was foiled not because of crack police work, but because Dad texted the wrong person who

they say he texted about killing his wife and beautiful little girl instead of the hitman.

Plus this, a wife shedding tears in court over the death of her husband. But prosecutors say after he was killed, she was anything but emotional.

Her cold, calculated actions revealed next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:15:54]CASAREZ: Tonight, a man`s alleged plan to hire a hitman to kill his wife and 4-year-old daughter -- it falls apart when he text messages

the wrong person about the sinister plot, his ex-boss. The former boss called police, and they arrested Jeffrey Lytle of Washington state and

charged him. The text messages and the story behind them are just shocking.

Joining my panel, Dillon Honcoop. He is a host with KGMI newsradio in Bellingham, Washington. Dillon, I want you and everybody else to listen as

I recite the text that went to his ex-boss. Here we go.

He says, "Hey, Shayne" -- that`s not the ex-boss`s name -- "Hey, Shayne, how`s it going? You remember you said that you would help me kill my wife.

I`m going to take you up on that offer. My wife`s insurance is worth a million. And if you want a bonus, you can kill my daughter. Her life

insurance is $500,000. I go to work at 5:00 in the morning. My wife goes to work at 2:00 PM. So if you can make it a robbery gone wrong or make it

an accident, she works at WalMart. She gets off at 11:00 o`clock. I`ll split everything with the insurance 50/50. Please call or text me."

All right, Dillon, so he sends this text to his ex-boss. Oops! What does the ex-boss do?

DILLON HONCOOP, KGMI (via telephone): Calls the cops right away. And this is just unbelievable. The Shayne, apparently -- this is what this Jeff

Lytle says now. Shayne doesn`t apparently even exist, according to him, like an imaginary friend or something. And thank goodness that this ended

up in the hands of this former boss of his instead, who called 911 right away.

Instead of getting in touch with Jeff Lytle, they got in touch with the wife, who was at work. They knew where she was at. And they found out,

look, they do have this insurance policy. That was where she worked at WalMart. That was her shift. And the only thing that was weird about it

was she said she didn`t think there was even a marital problem that would lead to something like this.

But again, like you said, this guy was offering a bonus if this hitman offed his daughter in addition to his wife! I don`t know if you can get

more twisted than that.

CASAREZ: Well, it`s unbelievable. I mean, it`s absolutely unbelievable on every level. But here`s one question I want to ask you. Is there a

Shayne? Because he says in the text, you know, Call me or text me. So if he`s thinking that Shayne is going to text back, Shayne must be in the

contact list of the iPhone. Do we know if he is?

HONCOOP: You`ve got to wonder about that. And he insists there is no Shayne. He insists that he was typing these things into his phone, that he

didn`t send them, that he saved them as a draft some time ago after having a fight with his wife and that Shayne just didn`t exist. It was just him

letting off steam or venting, as he called it.

So we don`t know if there is an actual Shayne, and I`m sure the investigators are holding that detail close to their chest right now of who

this Shayne is and what`s going to happen with that person.

[20:00:08]But again, he`s trying to be very crafty with this by saying there was no Shayne. I never texted Shayne. In fact, he`s blaming this on

his 4-year-old daughter!

CASAREZ: And he says he didn`t do it. He didn`t mean it. He wasn`t going to do it. All right, Robert, he says that the text was inadvertently sent,

that he would always text things not to send to anybody, just to vent his anger. His 4-year-old daughter is the one that got this saved text and

happened to send it to the boss, right?

Here`s the thing. He`s been charged with solicitation to murder. So the intent, is that all that matters here? If a Shayne doesn`t exist, is his

intent still pivotal in whether he can convicted (INAUDIBLE)

SCHALK: It is. But I think if there`s no Shayne that exists and if the prosecution and the police can`t find a nexus, a connection where this

previous conversation or this previous text exchange with this Shayne or this alleged hitman took place, where he says, Hey, I want to take you up

on your offer, they can`t connect the dots, I think their case may crumble because...

CASAREZ: Christine...

GRILLO: I don`t want the case. As a prosecutor, I would not want the case. There something else that`s missing here. There`s an actual lack of

an overt act of any kind. So he makes this -- so I don`t believe him for...

CASAREZ: But what about the life insurance? Because...

GRILLO: No, that`s motive. That`s motive.

CASAREZ: I know it`s motive, but...

GRILLO: Motive is not an element of the crime.

CASAREZ: ... his particulars, the details that he has shows his intent, doesn`t it?

GRILLO: Oh, it certainly shows his intent, but you can intend to do a lot of things, but you`re not going to be convicted for intending to commit a

crime. You have to be actively taking action to commit that crime. So it does -- I don`t believe him for a minute. I believe that he was doing this

to actually make this plan work. But unfortunately, if I were the prosecutor, I would be very unhappy with the evidence that I was dealt.

CASAREZ: Dillon, did they find a life insurance policy for this family?

HONCOOP: They`re looking into it. But the wife says there is this life insurance policy. That all jibes with what this guy told investigators

when they brought him in, which, by the way, he was they say was emotionless when they interviewed him about this. And even talked for --

even though he denied sending the text, he blamed his daughter, saying that she sent a text that he had saved a draft and forgot to delete. But he --

that he even talked through a possible robbery scenario with the detectives of how the shooting would go down in their home!

CASAREZ: Let me ask Christine about that. When the -- when law enforcement interviews him and they said, you know, You say in this text

about robbery, you know, it could be like a botched robbery, He said, yes, you know, what you do is you just go into my house and you take a few

things and kill my wife and then it would be like a robbery.

GRILLO: Again, if -- again if that -- it`s very -- if we had more evidence, that would certainly be great corroborating evidence to what the

prosecution is trying to prove.

CASAREZ: And to split...

GRILLO: However, that alone is not the crime.

CASAREZ: To split with the hitman 50/50?

GRILLO: Again, I...

CASAREZ: So in other words, the hitman would get $750,000 out of the deal! That`s ridiculous!

GRILLO: I can`t get over the fact that he added his daughter, of all things, you 4-year-old daughter.

CASAREZ: His 4-year-old daughter, his baby.

GRILLO: That`s what I can`t wrap my head around.

SCHALK: Right. What doesn`t make sense is the fact that you`re assuming that a 4-year-old can cut and copy a drafted text message, then pick an

individual that she`s sending to and then sending it. That doesn`t make sense.

But as Christine`s saying, I`ll be very interested to see, moving forward, whether or not the attorney has some sort of psychological evaluation

conducted because if there is some sort of discernible or identifiable mental illness that he might be suffering from that`s undiagnosed or

there`s something in that past that we don`t know about yet...

CASAREZ: Well, he said says he has no mental illness.

SCHALK: Yet.

CASAREZ: But there`s probably going to be...

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

CASAREZ: ... at the same time, the criminal case and the divorce case.

SCHALK: Right.

GRILLO: I`ll say.

CASAREZ: All right. A jury convicts a doctor in Texas -- not going to believe this -- of hurting his patients. But were these just horrible

mistakes, or was he a stone, cold killer?

And a woman in Texas, another part, Dallas -- she told police her husband killed herself. But now officers say she`s the one who pulled the trigger,

and they think that they`ve got motive, too.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:28:42]CASAREZ: Tonight, a young Texas mother and nurse is accused of murder. Tou Wen (ph) called 911 to report her husband, Stephen Hafer,

killed himself with a shotgun. When police arrived, they found the husband shot in the bedroom, but they really grew suspicious as they spoke to his

wife, who kept changing her story.

And then there`s this, which is the prosecution is basing its case on suicide by shotgun is very improbable. Also, the trajectory didn`t match

the wounds. And Tou Wen, his wife, admitted to an affair with a former boyfriend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stephen was a devoted father. He wanted to be the best husband. Got a text from her said, Your son shot himself. Left all his

clothes in our house. He says, I`m going to come back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) got killed!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And my panel is back with me. But first I want to bring in Jeffrey Boney. He is an associate editor for "The Houston Forward Times."

Jeffrey, thank you for joining us. First of all, this seemed like a really happy couple, wonderful family. During the holidays, they want to his

family`s home in Michigan. Just tell me about both of them first.

JEFFREY BONEY, "HOUSTON FORWARD TIMES" (via telephone): Well, actually, to be frank with you, according to the father of Steve Hafer, who was killed,

the couple had been having money issues. So for the first time since giving birth, Tou Wen went back to work as a nurse. And they left their

daughter in Michigan while she did an orientation at M.D. Anderson Hospital.

[20:30:10] And Steven had just flown back to Michigan last weekend to get his daughter. And as was mentioned, she had been having an affair with an

ex-boyfriend. So there was more to the story than just this happy couple.

CASAREZ: Right. Good point. Also, he had left a lot of his clothes at his parents` home in Michigan, his family`s home, saying that he was going to

be returning. So it doesn`t really equate with committing suicide. But, Jeffrey, he was a civil engineer, had a really good job, very successful in

this industry.

She is an R.N. at as you said, M.D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston. So, they both had good careers right here. What are prosecutors saying would be

the motive for her to lie and say that he committed suicide when, in fact, she allegedly murdered him?

BONEY: Right, so according to the prosecutors, when admitted to having that affair, like I said, they laid out the case that they don`t know the full

motive, but they do know that she did not try to revive her husband, they noted the shotgun that was found in the house had been wiped clean, and

that the shot trajectory did not match that of a self-inflicted wound. So, that makes it look -- did not make it look like a suicide but like a

homicide.

CASAREZ: You know, Christine, it doesn`t take rocket science.

GRILLO: No.

CASAREZ: . to look at the forensics of this, as a layperson (ph), and picture of a shotgun. How long is that barrel on the shotgun, right?

CASAREZ: You know, not only the shotgun in and of itself, you`re absolutely right, but the other added evidence that they found that it was wiped

clean. That in and of itself is who wipes it clean? How could it possibly be wiped clean? So that`s where there is a serious problem with her story,

that`s number one.

And then the trajectory of the bullet in and of itself, you can prove a case based on that alone. Which way the bullet came in if it came in, if

you`re able to kill yourself, shoot yourself this way around. I mean, that`s very, very strong evidence for the prosecution.

CASAREZ: You know, you`re a defense attorney. This is someone that is an R.N. She has a little bit of common sense, right? Why would she say that?

SCHALK: I think what you`re going to be looking at here from a defense perspective is, what was the initial contact with police, what does the 911

call say, what are her initial statements to how it went down, and you need to get obviously the forensics and the trajectory report of the police

department to an expert to have them independently review to see whether or not there is proof beyond a reasonable doubt here.

As you said, it doesn`t add up. She`s got a good job, he`s got a good job. And marital strength is marital strength. But murder, that`s a big leap.

CASAREZ: So what you were saying is this is going to be a battle of the experts here.

SCHALK: Absolutely.

CASAREZ: Now, here is something you got to hear about. It`s shocking. Christine, this is Texas. It`s Houston, Texas. I`m licensed in Texas. It`s

all law and order in that state. She`s charged with murder, $50,000 dollar bond, she bailed out, and she has their baby.

GRILLO: Okay. Because I guess when you`re adjudicating bail and you`re making a bail application, it`s whether or not she is likely to come back

into court. And if she`s saying that this did not happen and a good defense attorney is going to stand there with her and say, of course, she is going

to return, she wants to show the world that she is innocent, that this did not happen, plus she has a child, where is she gonna go, they took her

passport.

So I am not that shock without a criminal record if the evidence hasn`t been completely put together, the fact that she has a child, I think -- and

the fact that it`s not New York.

CASAREZ: And bail is not punishment.

SCHALK: Correct.

GRILLO: Yes, there we go.

SCHALK: To ensure that you come back to the court, according to the supreme court of this country, to ensure you come back.

CASAREZ: I think a lot of people up there are going to think there is something wrong when you`re charged with murder, when your story is

inconsistent, and she is innocent until proven guilty. But.

GRILLO: It is low.

SCHALK: Shockingly low, $50,000 for murder, I`ve never seen that, not New York.

CASAREZ: Right. Jeffrey, what else can you tell me? What are the other facts that we know at this point?

BONEY: Well, we know that she came to America in 2004 from Vietnam and gained citizenship later on. And she met, of course, Mr. Hafer through

mutual friend and they got married in 2014, and had their daughter just over two years ago.

We also know that, you know, there is a lot of speculation here, as far as motive is concerned. It could be tied to some insurance policy type of

initiative maybe that being a motive because of the money problems. But, of course, that`s not been something that has been proven.

CASAREZ: We do have a statement from the defense saying that there has been a rush to judgment by the prosecution by the district attorney from the

time the incident happened to when charges were brought the D.A. did not allow time to explore

[20:35:00] the other possibilities of what may have happened in this case. All right, well, everybody does make mistakes, but a doctor in Texas is

found guilty of intentionally maiming his patients during surgery. We`re talking about one of those patients coming up.

Plus a shocker in the murder case involving two Virginia tech students. What police say the man accused of killing a 13-year-old feared in the

weeks leading up to her death.

[20:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CASAREZ: In a highly unusual criminal case against a former neurosurgeon, a jury found Christopher Duntsch guilty of maiming a patient. The prosecution

also alleged he caused the death of at least two of his patients.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We the jury unanimously find that Christopher Duntsch guilty of intentionally, knowingly, and recklessly caused serious bodily

injury to an elderly individual and charged with indictment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: In one case, the former surgeon was accused of botching one woman`s spine surgery and making her need a wheelchair, another patient is

still struggling with all that has happened.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any remorse for him at all?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t really have any remorse for him due to the fact that anyone who can commit a crime against multiple people and they don`t

have remorse, then why should I feel remorseful for them?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Now Duntsch awaits sentencing and faces the possibility of life behind bars. Joining my panel also from Dallas, Texas, Matt Goodman, an

online editor @dmagazine.com. Matt, some of the things that are alleged that came into this trial as far as prior bad acts that this doctor

allegedly committed. Improper placement of screws and plates, not only they didn`t have to be in the body, but they were put in the wrong places in the

body if they were needed in the body.

A sponge left, that`s minor compared to a major vein cut in another. Operating on the wrong part of the spine, damaged nerves, chronic pain,

patients left in wheelchairs. Also alleging two deaths between 2012 and 2013. I mean, tell me more about the allegations of what this doctor did

and how did he keep doing it?

MATT GOODMAN, ONLINE EDITOR FOR @DMAGAZINE: So, Christopher Duntsch was a neurosurgeon from Memphis who came to Dallas in late 2011. He had an M.D.

and P.H.D. He had a fellowship at one of the most renowned minimally invasive spine surgery clinics in America. And he almost immediately

started harming patients. The question was, you know, was it intentional, was it reckless, and did he know what he was doing?

CASAREZ: But, Matt, here is my question. It is like several years that this all happened, 2011, 2012, 2013. Finally, his medical license was taken away

in 2013. What about the Texas Medical Board? What about the hospitals that he was able to perform surgeries and including Baylor. We contacted Baylor

Medical Center along with the hospital in Dallas, and they did not respond to us. But how was he allowed to continue doing this?

GOODMAN: So it was really kind of a perfect storm. It was a breakdown of the checks and balances that are meant to protect patients` safety which is

how one expert witness for the defense put it. Essentially, the first hospital that you mentioned, Baylor Plano, he was allowed to resign without

having his privileges revoked which means that he was not reported to a data bank for surgeons who basically were kicked out of the hospital and

told they could not practice.

He was able to take that letter and use that as evidence that he had no prior impact to his privileges and get privileges at another hospital. It

took the medical board about a year to really take the allegations seriously and throughout this time, you know, there is bad outcome after

bad outcome after bad outcome. The last surgery he was able to have at Baylor Plano, Kellie Martin actually died after bleeding out because he

damaged her vertebral artery which is something that neurosurgeons will tell you should never happen in this operation.

CASAREZ: You know, I just look at this and it`s just shocking. And with us tonight is not only one of his victims who actually survived, but I can say

victim, because there was just a conviction of this doctor, injury to an elderly person.

And joining us tonight is Mary Efurd. You are the victim. And I want to tell people that you went in for a simple fusion in your spine of two

vertebrae, and your spine surgery actually amputated part of your nerve route and has left you in a wheelchair. Tell us what you`ve gone through.

MARY EFURD, VICTIM OF CHRISTOPHER DUNTSCH: I`ve gone through considerable pain and lots of anguish, frustrated

[20:45:00] with this condition that it left me in. I was very independent person before this happened. And basically it just took away my

independence and left me dependent on others and living with this nerve pain every day.

CASAREZ: I`m so sorry. It`s just -- I mean, these are your golden years that you`re supposed to enjoy life and this is what happened to you. When

you first met this doctor, before the surgery, they come in or you probably go to their office and talk with them. What was your impression of him?

EFURD: Well, I first met him in 2011. He was kind, compassionate, was very positive that he knew what my problem was, and that he could fix it.

CASAREZ: Okay. All right.

EFURD: And.

CASAREZ: So you trusted him.

EFURD: Yes. I had a lot of trust in him. And I knew I had checked him on health grades and, you know, with the education and experience, and

everything looked really good on paper.

CASAREZ: It`s really scary. Really scary.

EFURD: Yes, it is.

CASAREZ: What about after the botched surgery which left you a different person. Was there a second surgery to be performed? Did he want to do it?

EFURD: Yes.

CASAREZ: What happened?

EFURD: About two days after this botched surgery, I was not doing well at all. I was in extreme, excruciating pain, and couldn`t move my feet and

legs. And the CEO from that hospital came in and said that I was doing well and that Dr. Duntsch wanted to do a second surgery. And I said no.

He will never touch me again. I know something is wrong, really wrong, because I can`t move my feet and legs and this extreme pain. And I said if

I really need the second surgery, please find me another surgeon.

CASAREZ: Wow, horrible. Miss Efurd, joining us tonight is the defense attorney for Dr. Christopher Duntsch, Robbie McClung, thank you, sir, for

joining us. I do want to ask you. I know you`re in the middle of the penalty phase right now. Your client faces life in prison, also could get

probation. What is your primary defense at trial, and what are you trying to mitigate the amount of time he serves in prison now?

ROBBIE MCCLUNG, ATTORNEY FOR DR. CHRISTOPHER DUNTSCH: I think as I do in most of the cases that I try here both in Dallas and in Collin County, the

mitigation aspect starts at the very beginning of the trial. We spend a great deal of time as Mr. Goodman said, talking about the systemic problem

that was going on in both Dallas and Collin County and the two hospitals where Dr. Duntsch was working.

The fact that they did not report things to the database, the fact that the CEO at Dallas Medical Center that Miss Efurd was just talking about did not

tell the people on staff that were giving him temporary privileges, that he had told her he had a bad outcome at his previous hospital, and that he had

voluntarily resigned which to the chief medical officer of that hospital was a huge ref flag.

If he had known, he would not have let Dr. Duntsch had temporary privileges. So, we began to expose a lot of these problems as well as the

fact that it`s become very clear from a lot of the people that were brought as state witnesses that Dr. Duntsch`s skill as a surgeon was more in

keeping with a first year resident. So, we are trying to.

CASAREZ: We did reach out to Dallas Medical Center, we do want to say this, and to Baylor. They did not respond. But I still don`t understand that

there were surgical nurses, there were surgical personnel, there were victims that were never the same again. I mean, are you trying to say that

donations to the hospital and keeping the hospital`s name was more important than stopping this surgeon from forming -- performing surgeries?

MCCLUNG: It appears from what we`ve heard as recent as today from nurses who went to another hospital and said, please do not hire this man, we have

seen things on the internet, please do not hire him, and the hospital disregarded their advise and continued to allow him to come on to their

hospital and do operations on people in 2013.

So, we were talking about people that are more focused on the monetary value of a neurosurgeon than they are on the interests of their patients

and protecting them.

CASAREZ: We would love to hear from the hospitals. We would love to hear their sides. Christine Grillo, I see you here. You`ve got to respond?

[20:50:00] GRILLO: No, in responding, it`s the blame game. So now, instead of him taking accountability for his own actions, the one person who knew

the most about what a poor surgeon this person was the defendant himself. He knew about all his mistakes, he knew about his poor use of his surgical

tools that they then proved to be deadly weapons.

CASAREZ: And Robbie McClung, your response to that.

MCCLUNG: The problem that she needs to understand and what we learned through conversations with our experts is that neurosurgeons are one of the

few people that have the least ability to self-examine because they do what they call tap dancing on a razor blade. They stand on an area and operate

in an area everyday that we`re not supposed to invade.

And the problem is if the surgeon doesn`t examine himself and isn`t able, he needs peers coming forward and saying, you`re doing something wrong, you

need to stop. And Dr. Duntsch had a few nurses and a few other individuals that said that to him, and he didn`t listen.

(CROSSTALK)

MCCLUNG: . over him stopping him either.

CASAREZ: An M.D. and 17 years of training.

MCCLUNG: I understand. But what we`re heard is that there were times he was let out of his surgery requirements in order to do research. There were all

sorts of things that went on with that fellowship and with his study in Memphis.

CASAREZ: All right. Thank you to our guests. We do have to move on. A 13- year-old killed. Her body dumped 80 miles from home. Now, two Virginia tech students charged in connection with her death. The bombshell police just

revealed as a positive motive.

[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CASAREZ: A shocking new twist in the murder of a 13-year-old girl allegedly involving two Virginia tech students. Newly filed documents. Prosecutors

believe one of the suspects, David Eisenhauer, feared he got the girl pregnant at a party. The documents called Eisenhauer`s co-defendant,

Natalie Keepers, telling police that he told her he made out with the girl at the party, blacked out, and woke up the next day in a ditch.

Keepers also told police Eisenhauer saw the girl again only because the girl, Nicole Lovell, threatened to kill herself if he didn`t visit her.

Eisenhauer, an exceptional athletic track star, was charged with first- degree murder, abduction, and concealing a dead body. Prosecutors allege he slit Lovell`s throat. Keepers has been charged with being an accessory to

first-degree murder and with concealing a body.

My panel is now back with me. All right. This story we`ve done before on "Primetime Justice." But, court documents, as you know, things come out in

court documents that allow you to see exactly where prosecutors are going and now because the question was motive. This David Eisenhauer had it all.

He was a track star. He just had his whole future before him. And now, allegedly, he believed he had gotten her pregnant, this young little 13-

year-old, 14-year-old that he had lured out of her home. Is that enough motive?

GRILLO: Oh, I think it is, definitely. Especially at his age. And like you said, he has everything going for him. He is starting his life. And now,

now he has to deal with a pregnant 13-year-old, and he`s the father of this child, and at that particular time, it`s all about himseld, that`s all he`s

thinking about. Think of the age and think of -- he`s very self-centered right now. So it clearly is a motive. As a prosecutor, I would love that

motive.

CASAREZ: So this young man who had everything going for him had a friend who we now understand had a fling with, okay, his own age, Natalie Keepers.

Well, she spills her guts to law enforcement when she is questioned by them early on, explaining what he does, how he does, allegedly, but according to

her it`s fact.

And that he realized he had to do something so he lured the young girl out of her home, slashed her throat, and stabbed her. Now, her attorneys, her

trial is coming up very soon. Her attorneys are saying, none of this comes in because she didn`t get her Miranda rights. Prosecutors say, you know

what, she was just a witness, then we didn`t have to give her Miranda rights.

SCHALK: The big question you have to answer is when are Miranda rights require to be given? It`s when custodial interrogation, when you`re a

suspect and you`re not free to leave, and there are questions that are meant to elicit any incriminating response. It will be interesting in any

pretrial hearing to see whether or not the detectives admit that they had information that she was involved or with him at the time of the murder or

in covering up or getting rid of the body.

Because if she was, and they knew that, and we`re asking questions about without Miranda, I think they have a very good argument to have that

statement suppressed and precluded at trial. And then what? He has to flip her, have her testify against him, give her a great deal, maybe limit the

jail probation to get him.

CASAREZ: Christine, her trial is coming up first.

GRILLO: Yes, her trial is coming up first. As you said flip her, what would be end of flipping? If they throw out those statements, what else now as

prosecutors would have against her?

SCHALK: That`s why you flip her now. Don`t let the pretrial hearing happen.

CASAREZ: All right. To be continued. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. I`m Jean Casarez.

[21:00:00] We`ll see you back here tomorrow night at 8:00 for PRIMETIME JUSTICE. "FORENSIC FILES" starts right now. Goodnight everybody.

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