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Mulvaney: We'll Remove Mandate Repeal to Save Tax Reform; Collins Allegations Against Moore Extremely Disturbing; GOP Lawmaker: I Hope Moore Does Right Thing and Steps Aside; White House Uncomfortable with Roy Moore Explanation; Trump: I should have Left UCLA Players in China Jail; More GOP Lawmakers Call for Moore to Withdraw; Aired 2:00-2:30a ET

Aired November 19, 2017 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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FAREED ZAKARIAM CNN HOST: -- Afghanistan. Thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. I will see you next week.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me this Sunday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

A possible turning point in the U.S. senate race in Alabama. Three of the state's largest newspapers are now urging voters to support democrat Doug Jones over Republican Roy Moore.

And the number of republicans calling on Moore to withdraw is growing. With multiple lawmakers speaking out this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: These allegations are extremely disturbing, but under the constitution, the test on whether or not you seat someone is whether they satisfy the age and residency requirements. So we would have to seat him, but I hope we don't get there. We're getting ahead of ourselves. I hope that the voters of Alabama choose not to elect him.

REP. BARBARA COMSTACK (R), VIRGINIA: I appreciate that the president actually was working with the White House and they've cut off funding to him. The national senatorial committee is now funding it. So you've seen people across the board. Ted Cruz, Mike Lee withdraw their support. Say he should step aside. I still hope he will do that and do the right thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Also today, the White House weighing in on the race this way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARC SHORT, WHITE HOUSE LEGISLATIVE DIRECTOR: We are uncomfortable with the explanations that Roy Moore has given to date. (END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: But just moments ago, we heard from the president, but not on Roy Moore. Instead on the UCLA players who were recently facing shoplifting charges in China. CNN White House correspondent Abby Phillip is following this developments.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Fredricka. The president has not said anything about Roy Moore in almost two months now since that primary race was decided in Alabama.

But today, he's actually launching into a Twitter war with LaVar ball, the father LiAngelo Ball, one of those three Americas who faced up to 10 year in prison in China.

The back story here is that LaVar Ball had actually downplayed President Trump's role in securing his son's release. He told ESPN on Friday, "What was he over there for? Don't tell me nothing. Everybody wants to make it seem like he helped me out."

Now, it's clear the president did not appreciate that at all. He had earlier, on Twitter, asked for the players to thank him for intervening. We know that through some sources that when he was in China, he spoke personally to President Xi Jinping and asking for some leniency for the players.

But today on Twitter, he weighed in in response to LaVar Ball saying, "Now that the three players are out of China and safe from years in jail, LaVar Ball, the father of LiAngelo is unaccepting of what I did for his son and that shoplifting is no big deal. I should have left them in jail."

That's a really extraordinary statement for the president of the United States to be making, suggesting that he might have left those three players facing 10 years in prison on a shoplifting charge in China.

Meanwhile, the White House still won't say whether or not the president is willing to withdraw his endorsement of Roy Moore in that Alabama race. A lot of people still asking the question today, why has it taken so long for the president to make his own statement on what he thinks should happen in that race?

WHITFIELD: So quite a few things there in mishmash of events response from the president via tweet. Talking about the UCLA players, implying that they're not grateful enough by way of the father of one of the players and then of course the White House coming out earlier today, not necessarily withdrawing support from Roy Moore, but also saying it speaks volumes that the president is not in Alabama campaigning for Roy Moore.

All right. We're going to talk about all of this throughout the next couple of hours. Abby Phillip, thank you so much.

All right. Joining me right now, Francis Rooney, a republican congressman from Florida. So, Congressman Rooney, good to see you. First, I want to get your reaction about this tweet coming from the president saying that he should have just left them, meaning the UCLA players, in jail. In China.

REP. FRANCIS ROONEY (R), FLORIDA: Well, I don't think he should left them in jail, but I was disappointed that the father of that young man made that comment as well. I mean, it's just one more instance of the reflection of the kind of pervasive moral depravity that we seem to be seeing in all fronts in America right now. I don't know what to do with it. I'm not a sociologist, but I'm going to try to read up on it and find out what were this thing, how this thing could be turned around.

WHITFIELD: Do you feel like in a case like this the president is in the right to express his thoughts and opinions about this, in this manner?

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ROONEY: Well, I don't see why not. He got them out and I'm sure he was irritated as was I to see the father who's the role model for this young man, basically saying stealing is no big deal.

WHITFIELD: That the president is -- the expectation is the president would be kind of a moral authority, a leader on morality and decorum, whether it'd be on the national stage or perhaps even in the world stage.

Is he bucking that by expressing himself in this manner?

ROONEY: Well, no. I think calling out the father for failing to do what a good parent should do is instill honesty and integrity in your children. My wife and I have certainly tried to do that with ours is a legitimate -- is a legitimate reflection of defending positive values. I was also glad he called out the pro football players who wouldn't stand up and pay respect to our country during the pledge of allegiance on the national anthem.

WHITFIELD: But is it one thing, if he takes issue with what the father would say, of one of the players that in turn he would see a favorable exchange to be -- to actually punish these young men.

ROONEY: Well, I would agree that the more technically correct response might have been to say the father is way off base here and we need parents to leave their kids with good values. And then focus back on the kids. I can see that point.

WHITFIELD: So let me ask you now about this Alabama senate race. Roy Moore, republican senator, Susan Collins was on CNN this morning and is looking at the race in this manner.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Would you rather serve with Doug Jones, the democrat, than with Roy Moore? COLLINS: I don't know Doug Jones at all, but I've never supported Roy Moore and I hope that he does not end up being in the United States senate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So, where are you on this? Is it your feeling that he should step down or perhaps when in the U.S. senate, it might be difficult for some republicans to say out loud they'd be willing to work with?

ROONEY: Well, I think there's an awful lot of smoke and maybe there's some fire. A lot of people that seemed to be following this more closely than me feel that he's guilty even though it hasn't been proven. That there's enough people have spoken out and taken great risks to themselves that that goes a great credibility to their comments.

This is another despicable morally depraved situation that we're facing as a country.

WHITFIELD: What do you mean?

ROONEY: Well, the conduct of this guy, if true, which evidently a lot of people feel it must be for these ladies to have come forward, so many of them to have come forward. This is just disgusting what the guy has talked about doing.

WHITFIELD: Do you believe the accusers or do you believe Roy Moore?

ROONEY: I think that -- I don't really know. Obviously, we don't know. And on the one hand, you're supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, but I'm very sensitive to the fact that so many people have come forward, so many women who feel to -- feel sympathy with these people who allegedly were abused. That I've kind of coming down on the side that maybe this guy shouldn't be in the senate.

WHITFIELD: So the White House said that it is very disturbed by the allegations. President Trump overall has been rather silent except for when in Asia saying he wanted to know more about it. His press secretary has instead spoken on his behalf.

Is it your feeling that the White House has said enough about Roy Moore? We know earlier today, one of the White House representatives also said that it speaks volumes that the president has not been in Alabama to campaign for Roy Moore. In fact, this is one representative here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHORT: Obviously, George, if he did not believe that the women's accusations were credible, he would be down campaigning for Roy Moore. He has not done that. He has concerns about the accusations, but he's also concerned that these accusations are 38 years old. Roy Moore has been in public service for decades and the accusations did not arise until a month before election. So we're concerned about the several aspects of the story. We're very concerned about the allegations. But at this point, as I said, we think it's best for the people of Alabama to make the decision for them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So Marc Short also went on to say that because the president hasn't been to Alabama to campaign for Roy Moore, that that sends a clear message. Do you believe that sends a clear message?

ROONEY: Well, I definitely think it sends a message, just like the NRSC pulling out their financial support. It's the message that there's enough smoke here --

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ROONEY: -- around all these allegations that they need to be taken very seriously and that this is a very serious matter and quite possibly this individual is unfit to serve in the senate and would be better off not there.

WHITFIELD: Do you believe that the president isn't weighing in more strongly on this because it is a difficult predicament for him given that there were accusations from at least 15 women who accuse him of sexual assault or inappropriate behavior?

ROONEY: No, I think he's not weighing in because he wants to let the people of Alabama decide their fate.

WHITEFIELD: Does it make it difficult that he was even on tape "Access Hollywood," that tape the world saw a year ago where he joked around admitting to touching women inappropriately?

ROONEY: That was a difficult tape, no doubt about it.

WHITFIELD: Is that why he hasn't spoken more clearer on Roy Moore in your view?

ROONEY: Well, I couldn't speculate on that, but I do know that he said clearly, as many other people, including some Alabama people that Alabama needs to decide what they are going to do about this.

WHITFIELD: All right. Congressman Francis Rooney, thanks so much for your time today.

ROONEY: Thanks for having me on.

Whitfield: All right. Still ahead, lawmakers are not the only ones turning up the heat on Roy Moore. The editorial board of Alabama's largest newspaper is not only calling for Moore to step aside but endorsing his opponent.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(0:15:00.4) WHITFIELD: Welcome back. This morning, a scathing new editorial from Alabama's largest newspaper group calling on Alabama voters to support Moore's democratic opponent, Doug Jones, saying the election is a "turning point for women in Alabama."

CNN's Nick Valencia is live for us in Alabama. So, Nick, what are you hearing there?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Fredricka. More bad news for the republican senate candidate this morning. For the second time in a week, a major media outlet here in the state of Alabama coming out against the republican candidate saying that he needs to step down. That was the earlier in the week. Today, they are pretty much endorsing the democratic challenger, Doug Jones. You see this bold headline here.

And this is what they say in part of their editorial. Saying quote, "Do not make your voting decision based on who it will affect on a national stage. Vote based who it will effect in your hometown. There's only one candidate left in this race who has proven worthy of the task representing Alabama. He is Doug Jones."

Fredricka, I'll take it back to you. Go back to you, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Well, sometimes that happens. We'll try to get back to our Nick Valencia, but some of the voters trying to express themselves all right there on a race that is now just three and a half weeks to go.

But let's talk about it further. This time with AL.com, managing prouder, John Hammontree. So, John, it's your dotcom outlet that we're talking about where this editorial board writes this. In part, "The seriousness of these incidents including one involving a 14-year- old child cannot be overstated. Do not let this conversation be muddled. This election has become a referendum on whether we will accept this kind of behavior from our leaders."

All right. So, what went into making this decision and going as far as the editorial board making this kind of statement?

HAMMONTREE: Well, I think we have been thinking a long time about who we would be endorsing in this race and obviously even before these allegations, there's a lot of Roy Moore's behavior and record that's just unpalatable.

He's been unseated from his position as a Supreme Court justice twice and he has made hostile claims to a number of Alabama residents, gay residents, Muslim residents, minorities.

And so this was just the icing on the cake. But I think that it does bring moral clarity to this moment. We each know somebody who has been the victim of abuse and how can we look him in the eyes and say this is the man that we're endorsing or this is the man that we're voting for and expect them to feel safe in the state?

WHITFIELD: But does it bring moral clarity? Because isn't that at the root of this debate or discussion? People see it differently, people are seeing it that Roy Moore is in the public eye for more than 40 years, these accusations are 40 years old. And while there are others say they have felt silenced for so many years because they didn't feel like there was an audience to be willing to hear about their accusations.

So talk to me about how voters are feeling very conflicted whereas the editorial board felt that they concretely had this message that you wanted to present.

HAMMONTREE: Voters do feel conflicted and, yes, the timing has been called into question by many voters. I think it's noteworthy that a lot of people have called in the timing -- called into question the timing of these accusations, but not necessarily the validity of them.

And so I think you are seeing more and more people across the aisle who are willing to take a stand against Roy Moore, particularly among voters. Now, it's true that the state party and the governor have each said that they will be voting for Moore and have threatened any republican who comes out --

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HAMMONTREE: -- and speaks against Moore, but when you look at people across the state, it's not a monolith. I think when you get caught up in a "Saturday Night Live" portrayals or late-night T.V.s, start to think, oh, all of Alabama must be rallying behind this guy. And that's just not the case.

I think that you have a number of people of faith and people not of faith who look at this man and say this can't be our ambassador to the U.S. This is not somebody who represents the values that we stand for and I don't think it was a hugely for us to go out and join those other voices.

If you look back at the past, sometimes, the Birmingham News and other state papers have trailed behind what people were actively doing. You look at the civil rights movement and you had a number of people down here who were actively fighting for change and the newspaper didn't always reflect that. And we wanted to make sure we were joining with the voices who are passionate in this state.

WHITFIELD: But it does sound like, John, there was a breaking point, right? Because even in your editorial, you write -- you open up by saying, the accusations against Roy Moore have been horrifying, but not shocking

So if that's the case, it sounds like people have heard about these accusations for a very long time. But there was something in particular that happened this go around that encouraged you all as an editorial board to make this statement, to go for the democrat, Doug Jones.

HAMMONTREE: Sure. And when we say it's horrifying but not shocking, if you look at the aspects of his record that he owns, he may deny these accusations, but he owns his hostility to homosexuals. He owns his hostility towards Muslim-Americans. He owns his hostility to immigrants. It's not shocking that he is guilty of or at least accused of hostility towards women and children.

And so when we say that it's horrifying, but not shocking, it's very consistent with the pattern of behavior that he has shown in public life and without.

WHITFIELD: So it boiled down to morality versus politics for you all?

HAMMONTREE: Yes.

WHITFIELD: And has there been any backlash? Have you heard from readers?

HAMMONTREE: We have heard from readers. We have been accused of being a liberal media organization time and time again. That will always happen when we speak about something that our audience doesn't want to hear. But we've also heard a ground swell of support for our reporting on this issue and for our commentary on this issue.

We have readers all across the state who do not think that Moore's views are consistent with their beliefs and we've got Hispanic readers in Sand Mountain. And Vietnamese readers in Bayou La Batre and Muslim readers in Birmingham and we wanted to make sure that we were speaking to that audience and not letting just the commenters on our website drive the conversation.

WHITFIELD: All right. John Hammontree, thanks so much for being with us.

HAMMONTREE: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Coming up next, house republicans scored a major win this week when they passed their tax plan. But several GOP lawmakers are voicing doubts now about the very different senate plan which includes dissolving the Obamacare individual mandate. We'll discuss that after the break.

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WHITFIELD: All right. Welcome back. Now that the house has passed tax reform, the senate says it will get their version to the floor sometime after Thanksgiving.

The senate's version will include the repeal of the individual mandate in Obamacare, something not in the house version. Well, this morning on CNN, White House budget director, Mick Mulvaney said, "There may be some flexibility in order to get tax reform passed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICK MULVANEY, WHITE HOUSE BUDGET DIRECTOR: I don't think anybody doubts where the White House is on repealing and replacing Obamacare. We absolutely want to do it. If we can repeal part of Obamacare as part of the tax bill and have a tax bill that is still a good tax bill that can pass, that's great. If it becomes an impediment to getting the best tax bill, we can, then we're OK in taking it out.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), VERMONT: We already have 28 million people who have no health insurance. Every other major country on earth guarantees health care to all people. Well, what happened here is 13 million more people would not have health insurance.

Now, some people say, well, if I'm 25 years of age and I'm healthy, he, no problem. I'm not going to buy health insurance. Well, you know what? 25-year-olds come out and diagnosed with leukemia, they get hit by buses. And you know who's going to have to pick up the bill for those 25-year-olds? You are and I am and everybody else in America who is now paying for health insurance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. I want to bring in Salina Zito. She is a CNN political contributor and a national political reporter at the "Washington Examiner." And Brian Karem. He is a CNN political analyst and executive editor at Sentinel Newspaper. Good to see you both.

BRIAN KAREM, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, SENTINEL NEWSPAPER: Good to see you, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. So, Salina, you first. The OMB directive, Mulvaney says they could potentially drop this individual mandate portion if it would be an impediment to this tax bill. Is that likely the direction it's going to go?

SALINO VITO, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, WASHINGTON EXAMINER: I think they're pretty much open from all sources that I've talked to. And so pretty much open to keeping this very fluid and very flexible.

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VITO: I think the bottom-line is that they want to have some sort of a tax relief, tax reform, but they also if they can be able to squeeze in removing the mandate. But most of all they want a win. And I think that's the most important thing here. For the republicans.

For the democrats -- I mean, yes -- for the democrats, they're in a cat bird seat and that's no is the most powerful thing you can use in politics. And so saying no, no, no about it, that's easier to do. The republicans had to explain things. They have to get into the details and people don't always have the patience for that.

WHITFIELD: And so, Brian, is that what it's contingent upon, this individual mandate, otherwise the tax bill looks like it's going to have the kind of support it needs in the senate?

KAREM: Well, I think you have to go back to what Mick said. I saw him on the hill this past week and he was talking about getting a good bill. You're not going to get any democrats to vote for this bill even if they drop that mandate, because it's looked upon as trickledown economics and that the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer. They see as part of the continued class warfare.

I mean, I think it says volumes like Gary Cohn came forward this week and Kevin Hassett, when I asked him about it in the White House briefing room, tried to defer away from the fact that it's trickledown economics. But when you have a whole council of CEOs who are saying they're not going to reinvest if they get this money. They're going to give it to their --

WHITFIELD: Right. Because Gary Cohn was taken aback at that moment when it was like, a show of hands and few CEOs were like, I'm on board with this and he was like, where are you? So that says a lot.